This can be read in its entirety HERE
Appeal Committee Meeting
of
James Caputo
My purpose for publishing my judicial committee meetings is not to establish my innocence or to "expose" another person's culpability. It is, however, to reveal how a mechanistic and unquestioning mode of thinking can greatly impair one's ability to exercise justice - causing one to resort to dishonest and irrational argumentation.
I do not question the general character of the elders who judged my case. I might have displayed a similar lack of charity seven years ago. I'm quite sure that these same men in any other circumstance would be perfectly lucid in their reasoning and equitable in their dealings. Having been raised as a Jehovah's Witness I understand why they made the decision they did. I therefore harbor no r for them personally.
I am quite certain, however, that no impartial jury in the free world would ever sustain the verdict of this body of men. After considering the contents of this case, I believe it will be obvious to the discerning reader why such trials are held behind closed doors.
This particular trial reveals how even in the face of devastating evidence, Jehovah's Witnesses are loyal to their fundamental teaching that the Watchtower acts as a unique channel of communication between God and mankind. It also sheds a glaring light on the religious intolerance and ecclesiastical tyranny that result from such a false concept.
Dialogue - Normal Font
Bible Quotes - Indented and Italicized
Watchtower Quotes - Indented and Bolded
Parenthetical comments are made throughout to indicate who was saying what to whom and to describe gestures or the spirit in which a particular thought was expressed.
[OBSERVATION] Publishing this hearing on the Internet has generated a considerable interest in Jehovah's Witness apologetics. I have since received countless emails from around the world requesting my comments on the Jehovah's Witness mind-set and rationale. In response to such inquiries I have included highlighted notes on particular patterns of false reasoning and argumentation that I found worthy of observation. It should be noted, however, that specious argumentation is not exclusive to Jehovah's Witnesses nor is religious intolerance. This "spirit of intolerance" has affected Christianity for two thousand years and has resulted in the fragmentation of Christ' body into some 22,000 sects.
Some emails I received on my judicial hearings
[IMPORTANT] In an effort to educate those unfamiliar with Watchtower doctrine, I have explained some key doctrines and important differences between Jehovah's Witnesses and Evangelical Christians as they come under discussion throughout the case. In so doing, I am not indirectly identifying myself as an Evangelical - that is, a member of an evangelical church or party. I consider myself fiercely non-denominational.
When anyone is replying to a matter before he hears it, that is foolishness on his part and a humiliation.
- Proverbs 18:13 NWT
The Charge
Apostasy, Promoting a Sect
The evidence
A private conversation in Tokyo, Japan in which I spoke critically of some Watchtower teachings and past Watchtower leaders.
Brother "M" : We’re going to rehear the case. So we asked Brother "C" who is from the Meriden area and Brother "M2" to come rehear the case now. I probably should tell you at the outset, I know these brothers have talked back and forth (with you) about differences of opinion and so forth… and I don’t know that we want to get into a lot of discussion along those lines. But we do want to hear your thoughts, all right?
James: Ok.
Brother "M" : And we do want to hear why you appealed. Well, we have your letter. You’re a… you look like a very articulate person and I’m sure that we rather hear it from you. But before we even get into all that…Jim uh… Brother "C" doesn’t know you. The only thing I knew about you before was that you’re a very famous singer.
James: (Joking) Not that famous…world famous in New Haven.
Brother "M" : (Laughing) Brother "M2" knows you but Brother "C" and I really don’t. Could you start out first and just tell us your background…How you got the truth, that kind of thing so we can know you a little bit better?
James: Actually that’s exactly how I wanted to start. I was raised as a Jehovah’s Witness. My parents were Catholics and came into the organization in the late fifties. So I never did much with the teachings…sort of like an inactive kid. At the age of twenty-three I realized that I needed to change around my life and started to read the Bible very seriously... and did so for two years... and did change my life from (the age of) twenty-three on. I am thirty-one years old now.
And so after two years of studying the Bible I had gone to San Francisco for an opera internship. While I was out there I met a very nice Brother. I was attending some meetings. I met a very nice Brother named Brother Garrett who really befriended me. He was like a father figure. At that time I wasn’t very close to my father. Through befriending me…he made it very clear…he said, "you know Jim you love the Bible, you’re life is good, it’s clean. You express an interest for spiritual things…don’t you think you should get baptized?" I said, "well you know…I would like to get baptized, I see that that’s in the scriptures. People believed and they were baptized." However I was sort of between a rock and a hard place. I felt that with my profession I wasn’t your cookie-cutter Jehovah’s Witness because I was traveling a lot. But none the less I felt the necessity to get baptized. And was very happily baptized. I came home from San Francisco, studied with Brother Smole from our congregation and decided to get baptized…and was baptized seven or eight months after that.
Brother "M" : Forgive me, I’m a little slow.
(Brother "M" says "I'm a little slow" when he wants to take notes or gather incriminating evidence. "Help me/us to understand" is also a favorite. He was anything but "slow!")
So you studied the Bible for a couple of years, you went out to San Francisco. This brother said to you…well have you thought about getting baptized? And then you came back here and for seven or eight months studied with Brother Smole and then you got baptized?
James: Right. Exactly. I Literally got baptized on a Saturday in Monroe and that Monday moved to San Francisco where I would live for a year. I associated with the Burlingame congregation, a very warm congregation. Brother Garrett was a wonderful father figure to me. I can’t complain about the way he treated me. He was very loving.
I was very active with the Witnesses. I was very sincere with the Witnesses. I loved being a Witness. I loved the Bible. During the year that I was out there I had made a statement to two close friends on separate occasions that I didn’t believe that Jehovah’s Witnesses were doing a separating work. I felt that the scriptures showed that the nature of the separating work is something that pierces so deeply into the kidneys…the motivating force of someone…and that just a presentation of the magazines at the door couldn’t really be considered a "separating"… and that Jesus would come with his reapers at the end of the age to do that. That would be with the angels. And they said "oh yes but the society teaches that we do a separating work." I said, "I really don’t see that in the scriptures." But I believed enough of the things of the Witnesses and was friends with them... so that it wasn’t really a problem.
I moved back a year later and when the separating doctrine changed my friend called me and said "my god you were right about that." And I said well it’s not a big deal, I just saw it clearly in the scriptures. My friend said "but it was in the Watchtower." I said I think that if in your heart you see the Bible teaching one thing and the Watchtower says something else, I would go with what the scriptures say. She said, "you can’t go out of the channel." I said, I’m not going ahead of "the channel" I just think those words (those of Jesus) were penned two thousand years ago and I think that channel (Jesus Christ) communicated that truth to us.
Word started going around in San Francisco. I don’t know if some of you have done circuit work out there but it’s very very "tight." The Witnesses are black and white, (concerning "apostasy") in and out. (Concerning disfellowshipping) When I came back here to Connecticut I was with some close friends from Boston. We were going to a party in Delaware. They were complaining about the elder arrangement and what not. Everyone was sort of "cavetching"… (Yiddish slang for trifling) nothing serious. I mentioned that I don’t see in the Bible that it’s scriptural that everyone should go door to door. There was a Bible in the car and I said look at Romans 12... it says that we’re many parts (members) in the body and every part has different gifts and different functions. Even Ephesians said:
"some as evangelizers."
Paul shows the body…the Christian congregation working with different functions. And my friend said to me "that’s what the apostates say." Brother Garrett had talked a lot about "apostates." I never knew anything about them. He (my friend from Boston) said, "well that’s what apostates say." I said I’m quoting (The Apostle) Paul, are you calling Paul an apostate? He asked, "do you feel strongly about that?" I said yes. That was that. I lost my friends in Boston over that conversation.
Following that Brother Garrett called me from San Francisco and said Jim we have to talk. Did you claim that even if the Bible says one thing and the Watchtower is preaching something else then you should adhere to the Scriptures? He said, "Brother you’re like a son to me and I’ve been a witness for fifty-five years and I can tell you, between friends like you and I, we can discuss these things...but we can’t discuss these things with other people." I said, "but Brother Garrett it’s in the Bible." He was really like a dad to me. I said, I don’t understand doesn’t God’s word prevail over any uninspired man’s writings? He said, well Jim that’s just the way it is. Then he said, "heck, Jim look, in the Bible it says: "some as evangelists" and yet all of us have to go door to door!"
I remember a cold sweat coming over me. My mouth was just wide open. I said, I wasn’t crazy about that. This brother who has been in the organization for years and has a very good rapport with the governing body…he’s sees that in the scriptures too. (That it is unscriptural to demand all to formally evangelize)
He had mentioned to me in that conversation that the "apostates" were going crazy over the generation change. I remember that that was something that really bothered me too. I thought to myself: the Witnesses have put that in the masthead of the Awake as the "Creator’s Promise." That was the purpose of the Awake to inspire hope in the promise of the Creator that the generation of 1914 wouldn’t pass away until all those events had taken place. That bothered me. It pricked my conscience that he was calling people "apostates" who had taken the same position with the things that perturbed me. They were being called "apostates." I saw that I was (considered) an "apostate" as well for mentioning what (the apostle) Paul said when he (Brother Garrett) verified my words.
Right after that point I was in Sarasota Florida... and he called me. I was singing. (At the Opera House) In all honesty I was really struggling with my faith....not faith in God and Christ, but really struggling with my faith in the Watchtower because of those things... but I saw a lot of good. I think I brought that out last week to Brother "D." I see wonderful things in the Watchtower and I love Jehovah’s Witnesses. (Getting back to my testimony)
I met a woman in Florida, she was ninety-three years old...a sister. She called me up and said, "I want to go to the opera and I want to take you to the Kingdom Hall." I wasn’t really going to meetings. I was really struggling. I said, "ok I’ll go with you." I drove with this sister to the Kingdom Hall. I said, (to her) "how long have you been a witness?" She said, "I was born into the organization." I said, "my god you were born into the organization? Your father must have been a witness?" She said, "he was but he didn’t die as a witness." And I said "why is that?" And she answered, "well, when 1914 fell through he had sold everything, and many of the brothers around the world had committed suicide because of the failure of 1914."
I had always gone door to door and told people that we knew 1914 was the end of the gentile times but we weren’t sure exactly what would happen. That’s what I preached...because colleagues that were Christians in various opera houses where I would work would say to me, "Witness are false prophets." I would vehemently and vigorously debate that that was not the case. I asked the sister, "you’re telling me that we predicted the end of the world?" "Absolutely!" She said, "you know what? The society doesn’t want anyone to know how severe it was. That’s why my husband ended up leaving the organization. He left with almost no faith in God whatsoever."
So I came home and at this point I was completely a mess... and I went to my father who was good friends with a man named Steve Suraci... in West Haven. (To Brother "M2") Do you know Steven? He’s a nice man, a nice gentleman. He’s a Bible Student straight from 1916...Russellite. He looks at Russell like he’s God. I met with him. I said, "Steven"…(starting another thought) they love Jehovah’s Witnesses. They believe God has used them in a mighty way.
IMPORTANT : While the Dawn Bible Students believe God has used the society in a mighty way to accomplish his will, the Watchtower unblushingly refers to them as "The Evil Slave Class." This they do despite the fact that they and the Dawn Bible Students share virtually the same cardinal beliefs.
I said "Steve I want you to level with me. I know you love Russell, but I’m at a crossroads in my life and I want to know, did Russell predict the end of the world for 1914." (Responding) "Yes he did." "Did brothers commit suicide around the world?" (Responding) "Yes they did." And when that happened to me…(Getting emotional) I hope I’m communicating my sincerity to you brothers. When that happened to me, my world collapsed.
And I said at that point, I want to look into this (The Watchtower’s) history because there are things I don’t know about their history. When I looked into the history of the Watchtower…and I bought the volumes (from 1879 onward) and I went through all the books…and I found someone who had the Finished Mystery… well this completely ruined what I had believed. I don’t know what to tell you, but the prophecies that I read with these Brothers (The Elders from the first meeting) last week... while they might see those things as "adjustments" and "clarifications" I can’t with a good conscience see what God says about a false Prophet and what Jesus Christ’s words say about future false prophets who will claim that he is in a hiding place or in the desert unbeknownst to mankind…I cannot look at those things and say my organization is not guilty of that. (Meaning false prophecy) I have to put God and his standards above what (The Watchtower) people claim. I expected a Catholic to do it when I went to his door...and I expect a witness to do the same...and if that’s "apostasy," then I’m an apostate.
Brother "M" : Well we appreciate that. Is there something that you brothers…
Brother "C" : Well just that the things that…you no longer believe it’s the organization or it’s the true organization. You don’t feel that you’re one of Jehovah’s Witnesses any more, is that it?
James: No, I haven’t attended meetings in three years. It was at that point where I completely discontinued my participation as a witness.
Brother "M2" : Jim if I may, I know the brothers had, I guess showed you a letter from Brother "H" who lives out there in California?
James: Yes.
Brother "M2" : He lists some things that you supposedly… you talked to him about. I guess you had an opportunity to go through that. To some (To some of the accusations of the letter) you say, yeah this is the way I feel, to some maybe not. There was a point in there about everyone going to heaven. How do you feel about that? You know what the witnesses feel about a heavenly class and an earthly class. You personally from your investigation of the scriptures, how do you feel about that?
James: I appreciate that. I feel that when reading the scriptures... and I don’t claim to have any special interpretive skill in reading the Bible. But I do know that since the age of twenty-three I would read he Bible a half hour every morning, a half hour every night very prayerfully. I found that when I put down the Watchtower and just read things (the Bible) contextually…letters as they were to be read, as letters. (Epistles) I found the position of the witnesses untenable from this point of view:
When Paul writes that there is one hope with one calling in which all of you are called, those I believe are inspired words. Jesus prayed that people would believe on their (the apostles) word in his last prayer (John 17:20). I believe on that word, and I believe that that’s speaking to me. Why I don’t believe what the witnesses believe? It’s (For) the simple fact that the man who declared that the one hope in which all Christians were called was no longer in function, was a man by the name of Joseph Rutherford. In studying the body of his work…and I have studied the body of his work quite diligently, I don’t feel that man was inspired of God nor had the authority to change scripture… to at a certain point just arbitrarily say, well the inspired word says this, but as an uninspired man…(Expressing another thought) and none of the Watchtower leaders claim to be inspired…(Returning to the former thought) but as an uninspired man, that calling is no longer in effect. Now there’s a New Hope! And based on Paul’s words that if anyone, even an angel from heaven should come and declare good news beyond that from what you have heard from us as good news, let that angel be condemned.
IMPORTANT : Jehovah's Witnesses know very little about the evolution of their theology. The entire process of how the organization officially establishes doctrine, is at best, very hazy to them. Putting a face and name on the particular WT leader who introduced a unique tenet can be very helpful to a Witness in that it can reveal that the same WT leader who formulated their cherished belief was invariably guilty of propounding many erratic doctrines. If one can help a Witness to identify the highly fallible leader as the source of the doctrine and not God , the JW will possibly reconsider the trustworthiness and validity of the teaching.
And so my position is, Paul who is invested with this incredible ministry, the ministry of reconciliation, and the ministry of teaching that hope...And was revealed his message by Jesus Christ according to Galatians 1...He didn’t go into communion with flesh over what he learned, but it was revealed by Jesus. (That is he didn’t learn it from a human agency) What uninspired man can claim a revelation beyond that of Jesus Christ given to Paul about the one hope?
Brother "M2" :is there anyone going to stay on the earth?
James: (Chuckling) You know what Brother "M2", I don’t have all the answers. It’s interesting, there’s a man I listen to on the radio. He’s called "the Bible answer man."
Brother "M2" : He’s evidently not a witness he’s just a Bible reader like yourself?
James: No he’s not a witness, he’s a Bible scholar. People call up and ask him questions...and they were asking him what about the heavens, what about the new earth… what about this and what about that? Two years ago when I was listening to him he said, "I’m not ready to answer that. I’m studying different constructs of what people believe and certain scholars." (Believe)
Two years later, just last week he said, "I’m still very reticent to give a comment on exactly how I feel about that." He said, "anything we say about what is to come in the future, we will prophesy partially about all of those things. But what we do know in the light of scripture… anything that is substantial has to out weigh that which is someone’s opinion (conjectural) or someone just putting the scriptures together in their own way."
What I see in the scriptures as a body of Christian teaching…I don’t see Paul... and I think I explained this last week, I don’t see Paul and his associates when speaking of the Kingdom of God…(Trying to find the right words) their expressions about the Kingdom of God were not in the sense of "this beautiful paradise earth." (That which JW’s emphasize to their neighbors) We (Jehovah’s Witnesses) show people pictures of people playing Volleyball and petting animals. Paul said I seek to know nothing but Christ and him impaled... And I feel the same way. I, from my own study have gotten to the point where that means everything. (The sacrificial death of Christ) If you can show people that they have fallen from a good relationship with God and that Jesus Christ has paid the price for their sins and to put faith in that name.
Brother "M2" : I know you had mentioned about Joseph Rutherford. You feel that he really didn’t have the right to adjust things in the scriptures as you had mentioned. How about the other presidents of the society or prominent ones… if we can refer to them as that in Jehovah’s organization? That was not the only thing that there has been an adjustment on.
IMPORTANT: Some Jehovah's Witnesses such as this elder will openly admit that prominent WT leaders have indeed "adjusted things in the scriptures." While this might startle a Christian, The Witnesses' belief in post-biblical revelation allows for these "adjustments." In fact, such "adjustments" in the scriptures are seen as God's active involvement in the organization.
James: Well along the same lines…(To Brother "D") do they have my papers that I had last week? (The false prophesies)
Brother "D" : Yes
James: Along those lines, I believe a person’s credentials and claimed authority to make such an "adjustment" should be weighed in the balance of the evidence and the proof that they speak for God and they act as a "channel of communication." I believe the study that I’ve done…(referring to the False Prophesy) and that’s just scratching the surface, that those men were not in that position. [False Prophesies]
Also going back to Galatians chapter 1... when were Paul’s words…I don’t understand this, and I ask a sincere question if anyone has an answer to it... when were Paul’s words to be updated? In other words if Jude says to make a hard fight for the faith that was once for all time delivered to the holy ones, then why would it have to be re-scripted? Why would new factors, new elements, new aspects of it have to be brought out? (In terms of the nature of the Kingdom) I don’t understand that. I don’t see it in the scriptures.
Brother "M" : (Not answering me) Forgive me Jim I’m a little slow. Bob asked you a question before I got the answer to the question before. I was writing. So what your saying is you believe that all individual…their hope is heaven.
James: I believe the Bible teaches that people who put their faith in Christ have that hope.
OBSERVATION: That this statement can be remotely viewed as "apostate" evidences how far the Watchtower has deviated from the Christian New Covenant. Could you imagine a council being formed in the first century because someone among the brothers had asserted in a private conversation that all those who put their faith in Christ have the hope of glory and immortality in the presence of God The Father and the Lord Jesus Christ? Better yet, could you imagine the apostles judging one an apostate for such a confession of faith? This, however, (as clearly seen in this case), is exactly what the Watchtower does today . The sheer irony of it all is that the organization claims to have restored "true Christianity" which supposedly was contaminated after the death of the apostles. History shows, however, that this "hope of glory" was on the lips of the Christian martyrs of the first centuries of Christianity.
Brother "M" : As opposed to a paradise earth?
James: Right. And I admit that I don’t have all the answers for the end times into the thousand-year millennium.
Brother "M" : It was not our intent to turn this into a Bible scholar pounding-the-table-type of discussion. (No one was pounding the table)
All 6 Elders: (Laughing)
Brother "M" : Um…and you…and of course you know well enough how we feel. We appreciate the comments that you make. You know we don’t agree with them obviously. But…we’re here to understand how you feel and why you feel injustice was made as far as you being disfellowshipped.
Are there other…and again we ask this question not to go into debate. But are there other matters just so that we understand that you do not agree with as far as Jehovah’s Witnesses are concerned?
IMPORTANT : Jehovah's Witnesses are taught that the views of former members are dangerous and not even worthy of discussion or refutation. Hence, Brother "M"s trepidation to discuss or "go into debate" over the issues. In fact, there is never a point in the meeting where any of the six elders attempt to encourage me to readopt the Watchtower's teachings. Their purpose is not to make a defense of the faith or draw back an erring brother, but to gather incriminating evidence.
James: Well there are many matters that I do agree with. Like I said, I’m coming from a different perspective because I’m studying the Bible by itself. I feel that many of the claims by (of) the Watchtower, that being "the faithful and discreet slave" are not realistic. (I meant true) I think they are assumed. But when questions are asked to the validity of what they claim to be, those questions cannot be answered. This evening I just ask five questions about "the faithful slave." And this in all seriousness…when I was having a crisis in my life I tried to speak to certain ones and I never got an answer. No one ever said well yeah Jim, Paul did say this, there is "one hope" however the Bible shows this... Especially Brother Garrett he just jumped down my throat and said those apostates…and this and that! I knew I could never talk to him.
I spoke to another brother in the Branford congregation, a very private conversation, a friend of the family. And we spoke for a couple of hours and I showed him those prophecies that were not fulfilled and that really stumbled me. He was just sort of…so what?... so what? That was hard for me. Then I asked him these questions that I made up here about "the faithful and discreet slave."
(Handing out six copies of questions and WT photocopies to the elders)
Brother "M" : (Referring to the papers from the prior meeting) Was that part of your package?
James: No. I think these are sincere questions. Yet, none the less, I feel that I can’t get answers. In asking this question to a brother, he just stared at me. (The Brother I just referred to) He was a close friend to me.
Brother "M" : Jim help us understand. As you well know there is a difference between a person who doesn’t understand something and there’s a person who already has come to a conclusion about it and has set his pattern of life. Based on the things you have said right up to now it doesn’t look like you’re looking for understanding. Am I correct in that statement?
James: It’s correct in the sense that three years after the fact…(After leaving the organization) I think I would go insane if I stayed on the edge tottering between world views and theologies. I mean of course I’ve had to come to certain conclusions. I’ve been by myself for three years. So while I am set in things I do believe based in God’s word I’m not beyond where I won’t discuss something in an open forum and respectfully.
Brother "M" : But if I understand correctly and help me if I’m incorrect. If I understand correctly there are certain areas like heaven that you are convinced that that is in fact so?
James: For Christians, yes I believe that.
Brother "M" : We appreciate you being honest with us. You know we’re…as an appeal committee it’s our charge to be as fair and to offer you as much dignity as we can.
(Keep this in mind as you read on)
James: I appreciate that.
Brother "M" : If you feel that there’s ways that you just differ from us and those are just inconvertible that that’s the way you feel, well we respect that about you…you know, that’s how you feel.
James: You know what I don’t understand Brother "M" ? I don’t understand how…for example when I was using the scriptures with these Brothers…and I love these brothers. I don’t know Brother "M" to well…
Brother "M" : …he’s the same.
All 6 Elders: (Laughing uproariously)
James: The Watchtower wrote a great article once in the sixties about having loyalty to church over loyalty to God’s word. And for me looking at the principles set forth in the Bible, Deuteronomy 18 about a prophet speaking something in the name of Jehovah and it not coming to pass, Jesus Christ’ words about being careful and warning us about false prophets. To me, for a person to look at their own organization, (Inserting an idea) and that’s a thorny issue because that touches home...that’s our organization...the same way a Catholic has that loyalty.
To look at the history as we did last week…of Russell saying: In 1881 we’ll all be in heaven. In 1914 the world will end. In 1915 it will end. In 1918 we’ll be glorified. 1925 Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are coming back. The forties, seventy-five, the prophecy about the generation…and say that those are "clarifications"…especially in the manner in which those statements were made. Millions of people will die from Christendom. The churches will be devastated. Speaking of Beth Sarim saying: "all of the churches are gnashing their teeth at the testimony of Beth Sarim and the prophets who are shortly to return."
To look at those things and sort of play a wordsmith game almost like we see Clinton doing, (At the time President Clinton was equivocating over what the word "is" in the Monica Lewinski scandal) and say those are "adjustments" not false prophecies.
IMPORTANT : The Watchtower euphemistically refers to its failed prophecy as: errors, mistakes, misinterpretations, misunderstandings, premature expectations, mistakes in their understanding, matters on which corrections of viewpoint have been needed, unrealized hopes, misplaced expectations, inaccurate concepts, views in need of refinement, serious disappointments and formerly cherished views. BUT NEVER FALSE PROPHESIES.
To listen to the words of Christ who says there will be false prophets, who will say I’m in a hiding place, don’t believe them. And Mr. Russell comes on the scene and says (in)…Zion’s Watchtower and Herald of Christ’ Presence Christ is present from 1874 and teaches that for forty years, he "heralds" that false date. (Actually fifty)
Yet when we read in the scriptures and it’s even under the heading of "apostasy" (Reasoning book pg.36) about certain men whose words have passed like gangrene…have spread like gangrene and that Hymenaeus and Philetus are of that sort deviating from the truth because they taught that the resurrection had occurred... So Hymenaeus and Philetus are of the sort to be considered "apostates" but Russell isn’t? That to me is biased.
IMPORTANT : Russell taught that the resurrection of "anointed Christians" took place in 1878. The Watchtower would go on to teach this for some five decades. In the Watchtower's official apologetics manual -Reasoning From The Scriptures- Hymenaeus and Philetus' premature declaration that the resurrection had taken place is used as an example of first century apostasy. This appears in the chapter entitled APOSTASY. Yet, as seen, the Watchtower's founder was guilty of similar offense. Currently the Watchtower teaches that all "anointed" Christians were resurrected in between the years 1918-1919. When an "anointed" witness dies today, it is alleged that he is immediately resurrected.
All 6 Elders: (Pregnant pause)
Brother "C" : (Completely ignoring everything I just said) When you were…you probably didn’t do enough looking when you were young. I had the advantage of seeing a lot of these things early and having the material. I had to make the choice whether this was really the truth or not. Whether you’re going to hitch yourself…or hitch your wagon to this organization. When you did you got baptized with the agreement to be one of us. A lot of these thing maybe you should of sort out after and made a firm decision. I think a lot of the friends didn’t do that until something tests them. And when they get tested they either stay in or they stay out.
The organization has set themselves up with a pretty good structure so that we can speak in agreement at least...and that was Paul’s admonition as well...and although we all might not really agree with everything the society says at all times in everything, because we don’t understand everything. We wait, we’re patient. We call it loyalty.
James: Does God’s word stand…?
Brother "C" : (Interrupting me) We will eventually find out. We’ll find out whether they were right or wrong on certain subjects. We always admit that. The difference is we don’t call them a false slave because they don’t intend to deceive us, but they give us the best they can at the time. Probably if you did your research you read the material. The society gave a pretty good answer on tacking back and forth, which the answer for a lot of the apostates charge us for us. (He meant "apostates" i.e. former witnesses, accuse them of changing their teachings) I read the Watchtower myself being aware of a lot of material I get in the mail and the people I talk to and I hear...but you make decisions in your life. Where you gonna go, which way?
James: When you say "tacking" do you mean going back to former views?
Brother "C" : Sometimes they’ve done that. The society has gone back to some things they thought before. They went back and forth with the elders as well. (The elder arrangement) But it’s a struggle to try to establish truth, to stay within Jehovah’s arrangement of things.
I think like this fellow you’re talking to on the radio that’s pretty much a lot of what we try to do as well…to give as clear and distinct a message as you can.
(So what's the difference between them and "the guy" on the radio?)
Are they going to change? Sure they’re going to change. There are adjustments from time to time. Where do you want to be when this is finally worked out. You know you’re making your choices that this is not the organization. That’s what you’re ultimately saying, this is the false prophet. This is not the one.
IMPORTANT : How does the Watchtower justify this process of continual vacillation as "tacking?" It does so by attributing each alteration in doctrine and policy to Jehovah God's ever "increasing light." The following doctrinal example of "tacking" suggests otherwise:
Will the men of Sodom be resurrected? WT 7/1879, p.8-YES!... WT6/1/52, p.338-NO!...WT 8/1/65 p.479-YES! ...WT 6/1/88, p.31-NO!...Live forever, early editions, p.179-YES!...Live forever, later editions, p.179-NO!...Insight, Vol. 2, p.985-YES!...Revelation, p.273-NO! Is the light getting brighter or is it blinking?
James: Last week one of the brothers, I won’t point him out. At the end of the discussion it (he) ended that the Watchtower when it comes to false prophecy is above the principles of God. Does everyone believe that’s true?
Brother "C" : I don’t understand what that means "above the principles of God."
James: In other words if the Bible sets forth what a false prophet is and the Watchtower has false prophecy…
Brother "D" : You specifically asked the Brother when you presented your information, would you say the Watchtower is a false prophet? He said no. That’s what you’re referring to.
James: Right. And then I asked, is the Watchtower above the principles of false prophecy? [Quote]
Brother "C" : I think the society has answered that. I’ll pretty much answer what the rest of us would say. We don’t consider it a false prophet at all.
James: So what is it when you say the world will end and it doesn’t?
Brother "C" : They make adjustments. They don’t understand everything.
James: That paper that I brought from the Watchtower Brother "C" said that someone who says the world will come to an end and it doesn’t, is guilty of false prophesying. (Awake! 10/8/68 pg.23)
Brother "C" : Yeah, I read that.
James: So, are there two measures of weights?
Brother "C" : No you have to understand the society’s stand. They take their best stand. They never said guaranteed in everything. Remember Seventy-five, (1975) Everyone predicted that that would be the end. The society felt pretty close that it could be. They didn’t say it would.
(Remember that statement)
I know a lot of people who left the truth because of it. They really depended on it being the end. It had to be the end for them.
I had a lot of friends who did. And we had some pretty good discussions on it. But the society I thought was pretty good in the way they presented it. They even apologized at one point to say if they had misled friends. It’s not their intention. It’s not their work; it’s not their efforts. They’re genuine. You see I know the men too. They’re genuine. Their interest is in us. Their interest is not in getting something.
James: But it’s still the principles of God. In other words I can have all the interest in the world in you. If I commit fornication, I have to say fornication is wrong. But if I commit false prophecy, false prophecy is wrong.
Brother "C" : They thought it would be the end, and that’s what they predicted.
James: They were guilty of false prophecy!
Brother "C" : They were wrong. They were wrong. But we don’t convict them as the false prophet to death forever because they correct themselves and make changes. There’s a difference. We can accept them for making mistakes and making changes.
James: Can you show me that in God’s word?
Brother "C" : That you can’t make mistakes?
James: That they could be false prophets and Jesus would forgive them?
Brother "M" : Um…let’s see what do they do in the football games (making the time-out sign)
All Six Elders: (Laughing)
Important: Did you notice how he at first blamed the membership for the 1975 expectations? Witnesses do this because the leadership has suggested several times through the columns of the Watchtower Magazine that such was the case. Throughout its history, Watchtower leaders have scolded the membership after each prophetic blunder. Yet, deep down this old-time Witness (who is in his seventies) knows better. When pushed into a corner concerning the watchtower's culpability in nourishing false hopes in JWs for the year 1975, he actually admits that "they thought it would be the end, and that’s what they predicted!"
Brother "M" : We didn’t…you didn’t appeal your disfellowshipping and you didn’t ask for an appeal committee so we can have a long discussion on doctrine. We’re not here for that. You’ve asked…you have said to us, I want to remain as on of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
James: No no I did not say that. In fact my course of life has proven that that’s not the case.
Brother "M" : At this point you’re thinking or feeling that you don’t want to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses?
James: I have not wanted to be one in three years. I haven’t been to a meeting in three years.
(that’s usually an indication)
Brother "M" :So why are we here tonight then?
James: It begs the question! Basically for this reason. When I found out all these things I stopped going to meetings. I lived here another year. A year in which no shepherding calls were made or anything like that.
Brother "M" : It’s because you didn’t offer any coffee.
Sidebar : Before the meeting the visiting brothers were teasing the Branford elders for not having prepared coffee. Apparently my not having received any shepherding calls for a years was an opportunity for some "theocratic levity."
James: (Amazed at his cavalier manner) Is that what it was?
Brother "M" : I don’t mean to be facetious.
James: That’s ok.
Brother "D" : He’s ribbing me.
James: After that year I pretty much got a clear idea that no one was going to answer those questions. Brother "C" looked at those questions. I don’t think they can really be answered. I moved to Philadelphia. I wanted to get away to start fresh in my life. And did so. Moved to Philadelphia, went to The Academy of Vocal Arts. I studied there and had a wonderful life. In (during) that year Linda kept calling me. A former friend. "Are you going to meetings?" "No I’m not." Never divulging my beliefs. She was relentless with me, Soliciting information. We did one thing together. We read Romans Chapter eight.
She said, "you think they all people are going to heaven? You sound like a "born again" when you talk about the Bible." I said "well, will you read one chapter of the Bible with me?" (We) read Romans eight, about those who are led by God’s spirit. And how Paul shows that those who are led by the flesh and have enmity and have condemnation and those who are led by the spirit have peace and joy and are "sons of God." And when we arrived at the verse that says all those who are led by the spirit these are the sons of God, she said, "your God is Satan the Devil and I will never speak to you again." That’s all we did. That was it.
The next night Scott calls me - The other friend. I hadn’t spoken to him in two years. (Imitating my "friend") "Hey how ya doin? I just wanted to ask you a few questions." I knew I was getting set up. I said , "you know what Scott , it’s my business. I’m not giving any information so you can solicit all you want I’m on my own and I’m not giving any information." (Directing the question to the local body of elders). And he said that to you…that I didn’t give any information.
The next night (Imitating a phone) BBBRRRING! From nine o clock to twelve thirty in the morning. Brother Garrett was calling me. Calling and calling and calling and calling and calling. And I know (it was) him because he doesn’t leave messages on the machine. Finally I picked up. He said, "this is Brother Garrett ." He’s a real old-time witness in the pejorative sense. (Imitating the person) He said, "this is Brother Garrett and I want to tell you that Linda and Scott are very upset.
You answered in the affirmative to the third baptismal question which recognizes you"…You know the whole thing! I said "Brother Garrett those people are calling me I didn’t say anything to Linda. I wrote her a letter and said she had a closed mind. I didn’t want to discuss anything and will never call her again! Scott I never said a word to. He said, "well you have to square with headquarters." I said "square with headquarters? I’m sitting here in Philadelphia minding my own business...why do I have to square with headquarters." He said, "because you made a decision and you have to separate yourself"…and this and that… and "you haven’t heard the end of me."
I said "Brother Garrett you’re like my dad why are you doing this? Don’t you want to hear why I lost my faith in the organization? Why I am where I am now? Do you just want to hang up in five minutes?" (He said) "Go ahead, you have five minutes."
I related some of the things…much like the story I told you. A much-abridged version than the one I told you. At the end of five minutes he said, "that’s it, that’s what the apostates say!" (Imitating the Phone) Click! And then the letter came in. I think the elder body…I don’t want to put words in your mouth…saw kind of a conspiratorial nature to the whole event.
Brother "D" : We had asked…as you had mentioned that you did agree that you said certain things but then again you made it very clear that it was not forthcoming.
James: Right. Right. What happened after that…and this is where the story gets a little convoluted.
Brother "M" : And this is going in the direction as to why we’re here tonight?
Brother "D" : Just to clarify: you had also said that you don’t talk to people
James: No. And my sister called (The elders) and said he’s my brother and he hasn’t shared his thoughts with me.
Brother "D" : So again, that’s what we made clear as long as you’re not talking to anyone.
OBSERVATION: The fact that I had not shared my religious thoughts with my own sister would be a pretty good indication that I was not expressing my views among the friends. Furthermore, why would there be such a fear of my expressing myself if the Watchtower has "the truth" and is perfectly innocent with nothing to hide?
James: I get hired to go to Japan with this Japanese brother who is also in San Francisco...and we are in Japan together and he says, "oh what’s going on with Brother Garrett and Linda no one says anything about you." And I recounted what happened. "It was a tough thing for me, they went after me." I said I was living a peaceful life in Philadelphia. And basically he said, "well you know you’re a good brother, You have good questions. I don’t have answers to your questions and the things you say but if you were in my congregation, I would work with you. We would write the society together." We ended amicably.
When it came to the end of the concert run…he had done business with the brothers there too in Japan. We had just a friendly contract. A contract in which I was promised X amount of dollars for each concert...and at the end of four concerts he gave me not even what one concert was worth or what we had agreed upon... I said Brother "H" you’re cheating me. And he said no I’m not cheating you...and I said, well I’ll tell you the truth, if you’re not cheating me then I’m going to call the other Brothers and see what they agreed to pay me.
He got on a plane and left me in Japan. Paid me X amount of dollars for four concerts. They (the other Brothers) paid X dollars a piece for those concerts! You can call the Brothers and I’ll give you the number. Brother Honma, (former) Branch overseer of Japan. He was in the yearbook of last year. He ( brother "H") got caught extorting money from me...and when he went home (To San Francisco) he cavorted with Brother Garrett and that’s why I’m here. And that’s why I say it was not my intention to start a "sect." I wanted to live a peaceful life. My extortionist is bringing me down. I say that before God.
SIDEBAR: At the time, because of the flavor and general tone of the letter, I surmised that Brother "H" and brother Garrett orchestrated their efforts in writing it. To be fair, however, I cannot say beyond a shadow of a doubt that brother Garrett was behind the second letter. However, the first letter and systematic rounding-up of the two false witnesses was all his doing.
Brother "M" : Those are serious charges obviously…was there something in writing that you had.
James: A friendly agreement. From this day to that day I’ll be giving concerts with Mr. "H." The fact of the matter is when this happened I went to Brother Honma and Brother Saito and I said, I was just given X dollars for four concerts. And they went " oh my God we just gave X dollars for each concert! And Brother "H" got on a plane and I had to buy my own plane ticket home...and it was a Fiasco in Japan! All the Brothers had saw that this man had extorted money.
Brother "C" : Have you taken it up with him?
James: No, I’m not going to do that...and just to tell you brothers, I was to leave in three weeks for Japan. X dollars in contracts...and it fell through last week because I’m getting disfellowshipped. The witnesses were doing the publicity and all that and my pianist is a witness and for that reason…
Brother "C" : They didn’t want to be associated? (with you)
James: No.
I spoke to Mr. Homna who was the branch overseer and he said "you’re a good man, I don’t know what to tell you. This (Brother "H") is a dishonest man."
Brother "D" : It was not our part that made it fall through.
James: No no no! I honestly called and faxed Mr. Homna and said this is the situation. He was heartsick over that.
Brother "M" : And how long…this happened last year?
James: Last year.
Brother "M" : Well you know I’m sure from reading the Bible that when a situation like that occurs it’s not tolerated in Jehovah’s organization. You basically have two options. The first option you know is to go to the congregation. Your second option is to forgive. But you might have done better to do the first one if you feel you have been wronged.
James: You know I thought of the first one but for the simple fact that I had separated myself from the entire system (The Watchtower system) I didn’t want to use the system on another person because I wanted to be free of punitive action on the part of the Watchtower. So why would I go and insert myself back into that judicial system to have someone act against a Jehovah’s Witnesses? I figured I would cut my losses. The contract that I got this year for the four concerts…they gave me an extra X thousand. They felt badly and they were behind me. Well I said I got more money out of this anyway. I was vindicated.
Brother "C" : The same group or a different group?
James: The same group. He (The Brother "H") got exed out of the equation. I had no correspondence with Japan he was doing all of it. Then when I went there…they were beautiful. The Brothers and Sisters were so sweet to me, very kind.
Brother "M" : So when you tell that story you also have to add the details you just added, correct?
James: Oh yeah, I don’t say that reflects Jehovah’s Witnesses. Jehovah’s Witnesses are by and large good and honest people.
Observation: One would think that in light of the dubious character of brother "H" that these elders might want to look into the matter further to establish whether or not brother "H" could possibly have had ulterior motives for his accusations against me - perhaps investigate to see if my expressions in regard to the Watchtower organization were forthcoming or systematically solicited as future ammunition should a possible money scandal ensue. Even though at this point I was perfectly willing to furnish the elders phone numbers of the brothers in Japan as confirmation of the truthfulness of what I was asserting, no effort was made on the part of these six elders in that regard. The fact that I was re-engaged the following year by the same Japanese brothers for a larger concert series and brother "H" was excluded all together (at their request) would also suggest that brother "H" was less than innocent and that I was certainly not "promoting a sect" among the friends in Japan. All these factors for some reason are mysteriously overlooked.
AT THIS POINT SOMETHING WENT AWRY WITH MY RECORDING DEVISE CUTTING ABOUT TEN MINUTES OUT OF THE MEETING.
Brother "M" : You don’t consider yourself one of Jehovah’s Witnesses?
James: No. I have not for three years.
Brother "M" : Do you consider yourself associated with any religion?
James: No I don’t
Brother "M" : Do you have people that you work with kind of in a study group at all?
James: My close friends from High school…we might get together and read some chapters from the Bible together and things like that. But in terms of formal worship I wanted to give myself a couple of years of really studying the word. I didn't want any kind of outside influence on me.
Brother "M" :So again I guess we go back to that question I asked before, why are we here tonight?
James: We’re here tonight because I feel that I’m getting snagged in a policy. A policy, which says, well if someone leaves quietly we won’t go near them. But if three people can vehemently and vigorously solicit information and that Brother blurts out some of his feelings or his viewpoints, then the machinery starts and it eats you up. There are no extenuating circumstances. This is the way it works. While in the congregation itself there can be many people who left the organization who decided that they no longer want to be Jehovah’s Witnesses. They live quietly and they’re not dragged before a judicial committee.
And so I see it as somewhat arbitrary that because these people solicited information from me…and they even admitted it. (Starting a new thought) The charge of "starting a sect" What kind of a sect is that? We’ll go from Japan to San Francisco? where are we going to have our first meeting? I mean it’s silly!
(My point was that the accusation that I wanted to "promote a sect" was obviously bogus in that all my accusers were a six hour plane ride away from me. This geographical reality would preclude the possibility of my promoting a sect).
It was not my desire to start a sect. I just want to leave in peace. I don’t want labels put on me as someone who is unfit for a sharing of a meal or a salutation. I don’t believe my crime deserves that punishment. I don’t think I’ve done anything wrong.
Brother "C" : You understand that did join to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses and behold the organization. These things you might have hashed out before but you didn’t you took it up later. You don’t believe like us, You don’t believe like we believe in the organization and what it does, how it works. You don’t believe the same things that we believe. So you really aren’t one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in any way, so how can you stay as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses and walk away when we know that? This is your testimony and you ultimately repudiate how we…you’re not one of us.
James: So let me see if I understand what you’re saying. If you leave the organization…so you can never leave without having judicial action taken against you?
Brother "C" : All I know is you. You want to address…
James: No no no I’m asking in general. I’m asking in general. If even among our elder body (certain) family members (of the elders) left the organization with impunity...
Brother "C" : I don’t know. We don’t know their cases.
James: No I’m saying if they leave the organization…
Brother "C" : They just go off and we don’t see them or have contact with them? Well you came here and talked to the Brothers and told them the story that you don’t believe like one of us at all. So you’re testimony of yourself is that I’m not one of them.
James: But do you think the people who left…I have a particular Brother in mind who’s an elder who has two daughters that left years ago…married non witnesses, one lives an immoral life. How come she’s not disfellowshipped? She lives right around here.
Brother "C" : I don’t know. When the contact is made if something happens maybe they will. I don’t know.
OBSERVATION: The people I was referring to were the children of one of the active elders in the congregation. Surely his children's beliefs would not be unknown to their own father so as to necessitate waiting to some unspecified future point when Jehovah would "reveal them." This kind of nepotism is commonly found in the Watchtower system.
James: Does that reflect Jehovah’s impartial judgment to you?
Brother "C" : You have to understand you want to decide all of them. We’re only here to decide yours!
James: That’s not righteous. That’s not righteous way to view it. That’s not righteous Brother!
Brother "D" : If you remember a year ago, up until the last three years you said you had no contact. You did walk away. A year later we didn’t put you out of the congregation.
James: I appreciate that.
Brother "D" : So it wasn’t like we were aggressively pursuing you. And we mentioned at that point that we were not going to aggressively pursue it if things stayed quiet. But they didn’t.
James: But you heard the circumstances of those things...(Going to another thought) No, you’re talking about promoting a sect.
Brother "D" : No no no, I didn’t say anything about promoting a sect.
James: Yes you did. We read about two weeks ago the scripture about promoting a sect.
Brother "D" : But that was among other things.
(The disingenuousness of this brother can be seen in that I spent a considerable amount of time defending the fact that I was not promoting a sect in my first meeting. Something this brother seems to forget).
James: Yes but if the accusation is that I’m promoting a sect…
Brother "D" : What we had asked and what we had presented to you was Brother "H"' letter. Do you say these things about the organization and we explained it and and you gave your opinion as to not believing what you formerly believed.
James: So what about those witnesses who no longer believe what they formerly believe at one time and left the organization?
(What about the Watchtower when it no longer believes what it formerly believed?)
Brother "D" : Well as Brother "C" mentioned, we don’t know what they believe at this point.
Brother "C" : You did let a number of friends know. It gets to be among the friends. Now I guess the friends all know.
(That was not a true statement. If " a number of the friends knew," why were there no local witnesses testifying against me?)
James: Where is the righteousness of that? That arbitrarily…we don’t know yet so it doesn’t matter, so Jehovah doesn’t have to take action. But if we know Jehovah takes action?
Brother "C" : We’re not Jehovah we’re just men.
James: But shouldn’t we reflect the way he judges things?
Brother "C" : We do in that we’re looking at your case…
James: What about someone else’s case?
Brother "C" : We’ll see what happens when it comes there but you can’t decide it either.
James: That’s not righteous. You have to show me that in the scriptures.
Brother "C" : You want to have more than one person…
James: No I want you to be scriptural! Jehovah’s not impartial.
Brother "C" : You have to understand that this information that you brought forth to us now, that you testified before these guys is your own testimony now that you don’t really want to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. You haven’t associated with them anymore. So why shouldn’t you be put out…?
James: Well for the simple fact that I have not tried to promote my views. So what you’re saying is because people solicited information from me and now "the process" has begun…now whenever I go to my sister’s house... when they have a gathering they can’t invite me because other witnesses are there? Yet for three years I’ve had meals with them and I haven’t shared my views with them. But I got caught in a system, is that what you’re saying?
Brother "C" :well maybe Jehovah opened it up for us. We don’t know.
James: That’s not sufficient! To say "maybe" and read the mind of Jehovah God is not a sufficient answer.
Brother "C" : He might have revealed it. He might of made it all come out. The sins of some men would be manifest right away… cause we view it as a sin… the sins of others will be manifest later. It’s not in our hands. When it’s revealed.
Brother "M" : I think that the basis for our discussion is probably second John 9. I’m sure it’s not new to you I didn’t bring it up as being a new bit of light. I guess Jim our focus is really verse eleven. To us this is just very clear. Verse ten:
If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your home or say a greeting to him.
Now you have demonstrated to those of us sitting at the table that you don’t feel as Jehovah’s Witnesses do. You don’t espouse the same doctrines that we do. So I don’t know, we could talk until the cows come home. You feel so strongly on the way you feel. The epitome of they way we feel is in verse 10.
James: Can I ask you something Brother "M" ? If I were right now sitting before a Mormon council in a similar situation. And they said, "well you know James:
"anyone that does not bring this teaching, don’t receive him into you’re house.."
Would that be valid?
Brother "C" : From among their organization it would be valid. You’re view is it’s not Jehovah’s organization. You see you’re outside that
James: That’s where I disagree. Because you’re saying "apostasy" is a denominational affair. In other words if I put three-hundred people in this room who all changed their (religious) organization, then, in some way they're all apostates to someone else in how their related.
(If) I put a Catholic, I put a protestant, and I put a Muslim, (in this room) all of which changed to a different religion, and (they say to each other) Apostate! Apostate! He was in our religious organization now he’s in that organization!
What about the Biblical definition of apostasy, does that enter the equation?
Brother "C" : (Completely ignoring me) Where we stand hasn’t changed.
James: No no. I asked you a question.
Brother "C" : (Continuing to ignore me) Where Jehovah’s Witnesses stand has not changed. We have our tenets we have our beliefs…
James: So it’s a denominational affair? So then denominationally I’m an "apostate?"
Brother "C" : As far as we’re concerned you’re an apostate from the truth as well.
James: Well wouldn’t you have to show that in (from) the Bible?
Brother "C" : You don’t believe like we do.
James: Then no one will sit down with me? Listen, I’ll tell you. I will sit down weekend after weekend until I’m blue in the face. If you can show me, (I'm wrong) I will absolutely change. Absolutely change. I promise you that....And I’m sincere about that. I mean you just read me a scripture (looking at the heading in my NIV Bible for second John)
"Beware of anti-Christ’s"
and said that I’m an anti-Christ!
Brother "C" : That’s our view remember…
James: Am I an anti-Christ?
Brother "C" : Ultimately to us it (you) would be an anti-Christ because you don’t believe… we believe we’re associated with the Christ and with Jehovah God and that we are Jehovah’s Witnesses. We have organized ourselves as a body…
James: Yeah, I’m saying scripturally am I an anti-Christ? (Reading from the Bible) It says:
"anyone who does not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh."
Do you think That I don’t confess that? (Don't) Do you think that was what John was talking about?
ALL 6 Elders: (Silent)
James: But that doesn’t matter? That’s ridiculous! That’s what I meant last week, the Bible doesn’t matter! Paul’s words don’t matter "some as evangelists!" Paul’s words don’t matter that don’t (not to) listen to a new gospel!
Brother "M" : Jim we appreciate what you say. Here’s the way we look at it. We look at it very simply. You were one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. When the Brother gave the baptismal talk and asked those two questions you said yes, I believe those things. It’s as simple as that. We appreciate that. Things happened in you’re life that changed your opinion.
Important: The Society said the following in the Watchtower of 7/1/55 :
"A Christian cannot be baptized in the name of the one actually doing the immersing or in the name of any man, nor in the name of any organization, but in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. This shows among other things, that Christianity is not a denominational affair, that sects have anything to do with it."
Subsequent to this Watchtower, the baptismal formula was expressly altered to render baptism just that ; a "denominational affair." Notice the multiple references made to the baptismal questions? This topic resurfaces toward the end of the meeting with an eye-opening admission.
James: You know what happened that "changed my opinion?" I got baptized with partial information. Brother "C" said I should have "filled myself in." Yet there are Brothers who are elders, who are district overseer’s, who don’t know the things that I brought out last week to these Brothers. So who’s concealing the sin if people from the highest ranks of the society don’t know that Jesus Christ was (presumably) reigning since 1874 and that the heavenly hope (As joint-heirs) was cut off in 1881 (And taught) for thirty years?
Brother "M" :You’re coming to us and saying "no I don’t want to be disfellowshipped from Jehovah’s Witnesses."
James: I’m saying I want to leave with dignity.
Brother "M" : But you’re also saying that you don’t want to be disfellowshipped.
James: Yes, I want to leave with dignity. In other words I want to go about my life. If I meet a witness in Stop and Shop ( a local grocery store) I want to say, hey how are you doing, nice to see you, say hi to your husband. That’s all that I’m saying. Is that an unreasonable request?
Brother "M" : We understand what you’re saying. But you also have to look from our prospective. You were one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, right?
James: Yes.
Brother "M" : When you used to read second John 9 through 11... if someone came to you with teachings different than what you believed what would you do?
James: I would never not say a greeting to them.
Brother "M" : But the Bible says so.
James: But the Bible says:
"whoever says that Jesus Christ did not come in the flesh"
You have to say what it (The Bible) says. You can’t pull one line out of it!
Brother "M" : This is our focus point.
OBSERVATION: What this brother meant by "this is our focus point" was that he much like brother "C," didn't care that the verse before was explicitly talking about antichrists who denied that Christ had come in the flesh. He just wanted to "Focus" on verse 10, take what he believed was the scriptural treatment accorded to such antichrists and then tranquilly accord that punishment to me.
James: But what was being discussed was the Docetists who said that Christ did not come in the flesh. That was a group of people who said that Jesus was a supernatural thing. I’m not that.
Brother "M" : (Ignoring what I just said) Is there anything else that you would like to say to us? Is there anything else that’s important and hasn’t been said?
James: I think it merits mentioning that I do feel that the Watchtower believes it’s above the word of God. I definitely feel that. I think I made that clear when I said that Hymenaeus and Philetus said the resurrection began and the scriptures say they deviated from the truth and subverted the faith of people who listened. Yet when Russell did it. "The light got brighter."
The same thing with all the false prophesies. I think brother M1 mentioned it last week that the principles of the Bible concerning false prophecy…they don’t apply to the Watchtower. Even the fact that Paul’s words (I meant John’s) are talking about an anti-Christ…well "this teaching" means the "Watchtower’s teaching."
I feel it’s very sad to talk to people who spend their lives in God’s word, condemning the world, (as the) "the great harlot." What I’ve seen in Christianity does not come close to this type of unrighteousness.
I believe this Brother "M" …and I’m directing this to you because you’re looking at me straight in the face. I believe this Brother "M" , if I were able the other night to sincerely have the meeting I had with these three Brothers before a congregation of people like they did it in the New Testament or even in the Old Testament when they went before the judges at the gates... I believe people would leave the organization and that this is suppressing information.
People look at a person as myself who’s truly committed to God and truly loves God’s word... and because their aren’t answers…(turning to Brother "C" who was examining my research on the "faithful slave") because there are not answers to that right there on the "faithful slave"...and you know there are not answers! You have to silence the person.
That’s what "apostates" are… because I’ve met the "apostates." They are people who put the witnesses against the standard of the Bible, and their (The Watchtower's) history and show that it can’t stand up. So we must put the hermetic seal around the (the witness) community. I really believe that. Because if you really thought I was misled you would say Brothers, lets get three Brothers, lets work with this kid. I don’t feel you do.
Brother "M" : (Not replying to anything I just said) Um…now lets see… there’s one area that I’m a little disconcerted about. You say that you haven’t talked to others unless they…sort of dug it out of you? Is there anybody that you know that you talked to that is no longer associating with the congregation?
(The Witch-hunt begins!)
James: I don’t follow you. People who are not associating?
Brother "M" : Yes, that used to associate?
James: Yes "Anonymous." (This person has not been officially ousted and so must remain anonymous)
Brother "M" : Do you talk to "Anonymous?"
James: Yes
Brother "M" : "Anonymous" used to be a witness?
James: x years.
Brother "M" : Forgive me I don’t know "Anonymous." "Anonymous" used to come to the Kingdom Hall? (Fishing) Would you say it’s because of… that it’s for some other reason "Anonymous" stop coming?
James: You know what? (Up to) At this point Brother "M" everything that has come out of my mouth has been rehashed to me. The proverb of not betraying the confidence of another…I have not seen that among witnesses. And I ‘m never going to speak on "Anonymous" account. You’ll have to get "Anonymous" here and talk to "Anonymous" because I don’t feel comfortable about that.
(Not satisfied, the inquisition continues)
Brother "M" : Do you folks…again we’re from out of town…has "Anonymous" voiced (themselves) in anyway that this is why "Anonymous" stopped Coming to meetings?
Brother "D" : No not to us.
James: Than again I feel Brother "D" you guys have a responsibility to see "Anonymous." Pasture the congregation! No one will pasture when you have these questions. (The questions on the "slave class") No one will pasture!
Brother "C" that right in front of you (My questions) will never be "pastured to" because there are no answers... because it’s not true. I believe that. That’s not true! That’s why there are no answers.
So we build an organization and we become policy-oriented... and we keep people out.
(Goading him) If there were answers to that you would say, my poor young Brother, you’ve been deceived. But there is not. You read the last page are there answers to those questions?
Brother "C" : Have you paid attention to the society’s answers to a lot of these questions?
James: There are no answers to those questions.
Brother "C" : Have you paid attention to the society’s answers to a lot of these questions?
James: I’ve studied the Watchtower ad nauseum ad infinitum!
Brother "C" : Also about the "tacking" back and forth?
James: I know about the "Tacking." (pointing to my questions) No what I said about the "faithful slave," right there.
Brother "C" : Well a quick one, I’ll take a quick one. (A question)
James: You’ll take one?
IMPORTANT: An argument consists of a premise (or several premises) and a conclusion. A premise is a reason, an explanation, or a justification. If the premise is part of a logical argument, it provides supporting data or evidence that leads the person to the conclusion. The conclusion of the argument is only as compelling as is the premise from which it is derived. If the premise is well-constructed (usually meaning well-understood and factual), and if it logically leads to the conclusion, then the listener will have to accept the conclusion, and the speaker will have accomplished his or her goal. As will be clearly seen here, the Watchtower's premise of divine authority is bereft of historic substance. It is asserted yet never proven.
Jehovah's Witnesses believe that they are led by a divinely appointed group known as "the faithful and discreet slave." Upon this one teaching hinges the entire theological infrastructure of the Watchtower Organization's claimed authority. I now set out to prove that their view of the "faithful slave" is historically nothing more than a concocted concept.
Although I am in the presence of six elders, this is the first time in the evening one of them will truly attempt to answer one of my questions. Notice the following exchange.
(pointing to the Watchtower magazine)
It says that the "faithful slave" has existed for 19 centuries from Pentecost C E. And it shows that one generation of the slave fed the succeeding generation. Not only did it feed it one after the other but it gave progressive spiritual food. ("The light" kept on getting brighter over the 1800 years) (Reading from the WT Magazine)
"So we see then that the method of feeding was not of isolated independent individuals but a close-knit body."
So my question is this:
Since history is by no means silent on religious development down through the centuries, even giving us a fairly complete picture of a stage by stage development of a universal Catholic Church organization and also the disagreements and separations from that system and the formation of various movements leading up to the reformation... why is it nothing can be found that would acceptably fit the Watchtower’s description of a single on-going "faithful and discreet slave class"... a homogeneous close-knit collective group functioning down through the centuries as the one and only feeding source for generation after generation for all Christians in all places?
Brother "C" : So you want them to feed (he meant show) from the first century until now? You want an apostolic succession… (Freudian slip?) or a succession rather?
James: No I want them to locate them. We have history in minutiae of the evolution of Christianity with schisms…the Lollards and Waldenses…we know everything in minutiae.
This is (Allegedly) God’s arrangement. He has a body that he deals with from 33 C E, progressively teaching this "close-knit body"... dispensing food that progresses with every generation.
Well where is there any evidence in the last 1900 years? Point to one group.
Brother "C" : Do you want the society’s stand on it?
James: No no I’m asking! Where was this group in the fifteen hundreds? Who was the "faithful slave?"
Brother "C" : I don’t remember them taking a stand on any one direct connection. They’ve always taken the stand that Jehovah knows his people.
(That’s a little vague. Jehovah is God, he knows everything)
James: But this says that it was a close-knit body. Where was the close-knit body?
Brother "C" : I can only identify it from the organization’s time on.
OBSERVATION : This is something like saying; "Microsoft has existed for two thousand years, but I can only identify it from Bill Gate's time on."
James: So we have Paul in the first century, and Russell in 1879, and nothing for 1800 years?
Brother "C" : They’ve always said that various people…
James: So where are they?
Brother "C" : They always said…they never said that they can guarantee who they were. They would leave that in God’s hands.
James: So it’s completely invisible?
Brother "C" : No they just said they would never identify them.
(A difference without a distinction)
The Lollards they said may be…uh…that they don’t pass judgment on them.
James: (Showing him a photocopy of pg.41 in the Reasoning Book) So why when we talk to Catholics about the Apostolic Succession we ask them:
Has an unbroken line of successors been traced from Peter to modern-day popes?
Why do they have to show us a succession?
Brother "C" : Because they make the claim that there is a succession.
James: Don’t we make the claim that there is a succession?
Brother "C" : Not to my knowledge.
James: Didn’t I just read to you (from the WT magazine) that we have a succession that feeds one generation to the next?
Brother "C" :I’m not sure that that’s the right understanding.
James: (Placing it in his hands for examination) Here! That’s the Watchtower! Where’s the difference with the Catholic succession…"Apostolic Succession" and the "faithful slave" succession?
We ask them to identify it. Will you identify yours?
Brother "C" : They have never identified it.
James: Oh ok, so it’s a chain of invisible links?
Brother "C" : There are people over the centuries that Jehovah has worked with.
James: Will you give me one? (Example) This close-knit body can you show me one?
Brother "C" : (Defeated) No I can’t, no.
James: (Dropping the issue) Ok.
OBSERVATION : It is incumbent upon anyone making a truth-claim such as this to offer positive evidence. Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. Man can make no greater claim then to speak for God. Notice, however, how his faith in the Watchtower's divine authority is divorced from any historical evidence. His vague argument, if applied to other historical inquiries, would destroy our knowledge of all of ancient history - especially that of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Jesus' resurrection was demonstrated by over 500 eyewitnesses over a 40 day period of time, on 12 separate occasions. His empty tomb was observed, his reanimated body touched. He was seen eating physical food and people listened to him teach nearly a month and a half. This is not hearsay evidence. Furthermore, the immediate successors of the apostles beginning in the late first and early second century testified to the fact that the Gospel accounts and apostolic epistles were authentic history. In A.D. 95 Clement of Rome cited the Gospels. Around A.D. 110 Ignatius quoted Luke 24:39 (a crucial text on the resurrection of Christ). Polycarp, a disciple of John the apostle cites the synoptic gospels as authentic. The Epistle of Barnabas (135) quotes Matthew. Papias (125 and following) speaks of Matthew, Mark, and John writing Gospels saying three times that Mark made no errors.
Unlike the Watchtower's "faithful and discrete slave" myth which cannot furnish one visible body of individuals over the last 2000 years as an historical link to it's alleged modern-day counterpart, the succession of witnesses to the historical event of the resurrection can be traced generation after generation to our present day.
Brother "D" :That doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Because someone can’t prove it to you. If your faith is based on that you have to see something…
Brother "C" : They have always said that over the centuries there were men of faith and that Jehovah knows his people.
James: No they said it was a close-knit body that fed itself progressively. So progressively that when it arrived to Charles Taze Russell…(starting a new thought)...why didn’t he contact the 1900 year-old "faithful slave?"
Brother "C" : (Ignoring me) Who do you think they are then?
James: But I’m asking; why didn’t Charles Taze Russell contact the 1900 year-old "faithful and discreet slave?" As a 19-year-old boy he picked the Bible up and studied it himself. Didn’t he act "untheocratically?"
Brother "C" : Against who?
James: I’m asking you! Wasn’t that untheocratic?
Brother "C" : Did any organization…did he claim to be…he was a Methodist…
OBSERVATION: That's my point. Who was the faithful slave when Russell was 19 years old? Where was "God's organization?" Why did Russell strike out on his own independent of the 1900 year-old slave class? Just imagine if today a 19 year-old Jehovah's Witness brother struck out independently from the Watchtower's "faithful and discreet slave."
IMPORTANT : In reality the "faithful slave" as understood by Jehovah's Witnesses had its beginning in the person of Charles Tazes Russell in1879. Therefore there can be no concrete historical answers to these questions prior to his arriving on the scene. In hopes of not appearing as just a twentieth century sect, the120-year-old organization claims that the "faithful slave" has existed for 2000 years. It thus paints itself as an established institution of antiquity. This causes a problem, however, in that the Watchtower cannot link itself with any specific group of the past-for virtually all of them embraced doctrines the Watchtower considers apostate.
?
The chain of invisible links
James: The "faithful slave" was 1900 years old. Charles Taze Russell is 20 years old, why didn’t he contact them... They had 1900 years of ever-shining light?
Brother "M" : (Arbitrating and ending the obviously lost battle) Jim…
James: That’s my point though! That’s my point! That’s why I have to be called an "apostate," because those are fables of men.
Brother "M" : Jim I guess…and I’ll just give you a personal opinion and that’s all it is. It is good to have questions about the Bible. It is good to have questions about things we read. It shows an active mind. And many times over the years individuals in the congregation have come to me and said, "I don’t understand this." And I always say to them well then it’s time that you look for an answer. And I say here’s an index and this is how you use it. You look up everything you can find and then come back to me and we’ll talk about it. And if you still don’t understand it will talk about it some more. But you need to make sure that you have looked in every comment the society has made about it.
IMPORTANT: All biblical research done by the great majority of Jehovah's Witnesses is accomplished by referring solely to past Watchtower literature. The average witness would not dream of entering a Christian book store much less base his biblical research on scholarly works outside the framework of the society's "theocratic library." This self-validating methodology ensures conformity of thought and ultimately shields the rank and file witness from any evidence that could undermine the organization's unique teachings. This unilateral approach to research, however, is wholly circular. It is something like my saying; I am the greatest singer in the world. If you doubt that, have questions about it or don't quite understand it, "it's time you look for an answer." "Look up everything you can find" that I have ever written about my singing "and then come back to me and we'll talk about it." In essence, the Watchtower does the same, for it only desires to hear its echo.
James: Brother "M" I have exhausted my study of the Watchtower.
Brother "M" : No no no you didn’t let me finish.
James: Sorry.
(I thought he was suggesting that I had not done enough research on the subject, but he was recounting how he deals with witnesses who have questions)
Brother "M" : And so generally what happens is a person comes back and they say "I found an answer to my question," or "I didn’t find an answer." And I kind of quiz them to see whether they really researched it or not. You know just to make sure…maybe there are a couple of citations that they missed. So I say, did you check this? "No I didn’t check that." Well go back and check that. And sometimes they come back and say you know I couldn’t find anything in the society’s publications on that subject. So I say what are you going to do? "Well I’m just going to wait and Jehovah in time will reveal it to me." Ok fine that’s good.
That’s one kind of person. Another kind of person may not do that.
OBSERVATION: Brother "M" is insinuating that my inquiries should be in abeyance until Jehovah reveals the answers. Yet he commits a logical fallacy. One would not have to wait for Jehovah to reveal something if the society already teaches it? The fact that they teach the doctrine of a 2,000 year-old faithful and discreet slave would indicate that it has already been "revealed." Furthermore, if the Watchtower is categorically unable and unwilling to specify a composite body of believers over the last two-thousand years who fits its unique description of the "faithful slave," then how can they rightly claim it ever existed - or better yet, how can they assert that the nature of its teaching was "progressive." Based on what data can one make such qualifications if it's impossible to concretely identify even one individual from "the slave" at any point in history prior to 1879?
James: When you say "Jehovah" you mean the organization don’t you?
Brother "M" :I’m sorry.
James: When you say "Jehovah will reveal it" you mean the organization?
(Jehovah God=Watchtower Society?)
Brother "M" : I don’t want to get caught in that discussion. It’s as simple as Jehovah will reveal it through his organization. That’s all I’m going to say.
IMPORTANT: Is it that "simple," as Brother "M" suggests, or isn't that the very issue that's been questioned all evening? Does The Watchtower = Jehovah? Is not agreeing with the Watchtower going ahead of God? Does conscientious objection to unique Watchtower teachings constitute Biblical apostasy?
James: But are those legitimate questions Brother "M" ?
Brother "M" : (Refusing to reply) I’ve just expressed myself.
And I think…I know Brother "C" feels this way because he has a few Grey hairs. You’ve come to a point in your life where you believed Jehovah.
(I still believe Jehovah)
You know Jehovah is the God of the universe.
And there are a myriad of things that we don’t know about Jehovah yet. Everyday we learn something about Jehovah. It may be thousands of years before Jehovah reveals certain things to us. But we know he’s going to do it. And we have that faith in Jehovah that that’s going to come. And if there’s something there that maybe we don’t understand today, in time Jehovah will reveal it to us.
I’m not trying to say that you should feel this way.
James: No I appreciate it. I have to respect that.
Brother "M" : And I know that at some point I might read something in the Watchtower or I might read something in the Bible. And I say you know I just don’t understand that. But I can only tell you in the forty odd years I’ve been a witness, there’s been things that maybe I haven’t understood. In time Jehovah reveals them to us. It might be through the Bible, it might be through the Watchtower or Awake, it might be through whatever, but it comes to us. That’s the faith that I have as a witness. That it’s going to be taken care of.
IMPORTANT : The future revelations Brother "M" is so confident to receive will no doubt come through the publications of the Watchtower. Through that literature, he trusts, that Jehovah in time will by some mysterious process communicate his will to faithful men in Brooklyn, New York. Ninety-nine point nine percent of Jehovah's Witnesses, however, will never meet these "faithful men." How does the Watchtower inspire millions of adherents to place their unyielding faith in faceless men ? The Watchtower accomplishes this by not disclosing the names of the people who write the articles for their publications. JWs therefore erroneously accept the content of such "ghost writers" as if emanating from Jehovah himself.
This wizard-of-Oz" situation can be better understood if viewed historically. For some years Judge Rutherford signed his name on all WT literature as did Russell. He sternly warned that the repudiation of Russell's fanciful doctrines was tantamount to repudiating the LORD. After the schism of Russell's devotees it became apparent that Rutherford had to re-anchor the "divine authority" of the Watchtower in someone or something other than pastor Russell. Hence, "The Judge" recognizing his inability to fill the the shoes of his predecessor, sagaciously transferred the willing loyalty and submission conferred upon Pastor Russell to the magic word and concept of "organization." (This is similar to how the word "church" [which originally applied to God's gathered people] in the second century came to be understood as referring to Church leaders and their authority).
In true Wizard-of-Oz fashion Rutherford then slipped behind the Watchtower curtain and continued his monarchical rule. He would go on to anonymously author virtually all Watchtower literature throughout his presidency. Jehovah's Witnesses from that point on would now credit Jehovah for the content found there-in. Rutherford had effectively effectuated the Watchtower's transition from Russell's "cult of personality" to today's "cult of anonymity."
Jehovah's Witnesses now attribute all spiritual food to a mysterious "faithful and discrete slave" which is no longer Russell or any one man for that matter, but a composite group of 8,735 Christians dispersed throughout the earth. How does this disjunctive group communicate God's new light to Brooklyn Headquarters? The fact is, they don't. Less then one percent of these Christians have anything to do with the literature published by the society. In fact, it is safe to say that the preponderance of what Jehovah's Witnesses receive by way of the written word is authored by members of the "great crowd." These men are no different than local Jehovah's Witness elders. This concept of the "faithful slave," however, is so deeply embedded in witnesses that they fail to come to grips with this reality. Therefore, the publications published by the society take on a "divine aura."
James: So what about a person…lets say "Anonymous" had similar questions, and put these questions to Brother "D" or whoever the body of elders were and said this is legitimate... I want an answer for that. If this is not true and you can’t identify any "slave" and you just have to say it was there but we don’t know where... Well to say that this is a doctrine of necessity for salvation…that God has always had an organization, 1900 years of which we can’t identify... That’s a serious question. Shouldn’t Brothers be equipped to answer those questions?
Brother "M" : Does "Anonymous" want to do that?
(Notice how he didn’t answer the question but wants to go after "anonymous?")
James: Want to do what?
Brother "M" : To sit and ask these Brothers that question?
OBSERVATION: The inquisitorial nature of this dialogue is truly chilling. Why would anonymous want "to sit and ask these brothers that question" when as seen, "these brothers" had no meaningful reply to "that question." Is Brother "M"'s intention really to build the faith of "anonymous" and heal the spiritual wounds of "anonymous?"
As seen, Jehovah's Witnesses who have questions or doubts cannot approach the elders for answers to their inquiries lest they run the risk of being disfellowshipped. They cannot speak to friends or family for that would be evidence of their "promoting a sect." If you recall, Brother "M"'s very first statement of the evening was that he didn't want to go into a lot of discussion along doctrinal lines. The obvious question springs to mind:
If one cannot speak of these matters with friends, family members, elders, or even at their own religious judicial committee meeting when they are being tried for "apostasy," when does one discuss them?
James: I think if the Brothers went and spoke to "Anonymous." "Anonymous" would speak to them, absolutely. I’ve been open. I don’t hide what I believe. I’m not embarrassed. I’m not ashamed of what I believe. I believe it’s rooted in the scriptures. I believe the question I asked Brother "M" is a legitimate question to which I got a fanciful answer. "It just was there but we don’t know it."
Brother "M" : I guess what I was trying to say…well lets take one thing at a time. If you would like to suggest to "Anonymous" that "Anonymous" invites the Brothers over, I’m sure they would be happy to come.
James: Would "Anonymous" do so with reprisals?
Brother "M" : (Uncomfortably long pause) That’s an interesting question. Do you feel it’s a possibility?
(He asks me?)
James: No I’m asking you.
Brother "M" : Is their mind such that they... I guess really the question is, are they looking to understand or are they…or they already made up their mind?
James: You know I’ll answer it with a statement. No one wakes up one day and is in the position where I am today. I am where I am today because no one would speak to me. I had those questions three years ago.
I started to think (about the) Apostolic Succession. I saw it in an encyclopedia. (Discussing what I read) Witness hierarchy is much like the Catholic Church claiming a succession of apostolic authority...yet the witnesses don’t attempt to locate any of their apostolic authority through out their history.
Brother "M2" : Where did you find that information?
James: Encyclopedia of American Religions. So my question was…at certain points I had these questions. Three and a half years ago when my faith was wavering when I was in Florida, I went to the two closest people I could speak to. I went to Brother Garrett a little at a time...and he would talk about "apostates." (Imitating the person) and that’s what "apostates" say. I went to another brother in our congregation. (an elder) He never came back. Where do you go?
Brother "D" : What about meetings?
James: Why would I come to the meetings? My faith was rocked!
Brother "D" : Where else could you build faith? You can’t build it by yourself.
James: But no I’m asking you as shepherds of the field, don’t you go after the one that strays from the ninety-nine?
Brother "D" : Absolutely. We couldn’t find it. (the sheep)
James: Brother "D" I lived here a year before I moved. (To Philadelphia)
Brother "D" : You weren’t anywhere near our door. (Meaning the kingdom Hall door)
James: So you can’t come to my door?
OBSERVATION :Could you imagine a shepherd that only shepherds those sheep that come to him?
Brother "D" : I didn’t know where you were.
James: I wasn’t living home for one year?
(My family with whom I lived attended that congregation during that entire year)
Brother "D" : Jim, I don’t really want to discuss it.
James: well, I mean, you don’t want to discuss it because you know that you didn’t come and visit me. Don’t be silly!
Brother "D" : (Blaming the sheep) If you had doubts about what the society is teaching did you right to them? Wouldn’t you want to go to the source and say will you please explain this?
Brother "M" : Because a lot of people do.
Brother "D" : I mean if you had a question on what they wrote wouldn’t that be logical instead of trying to get your own answers from your own thinking?
James: What about from older Brothers?
Brother "D" : Everybody has some kind of viewpoint on things. I come with my viewpoint you come with yours. The society wrote that wouldn’t you want to see what is your answer to this?
IMPORTANT: I didn't write the society because I had read numerous testimonies confirming the fact that when Headquarters receives such questions they dispatch elders to the person not to answer the questions, but to ask questions about that particular person’s loyalty, to the organization. Much like Brother "M" was doing in regard to "Anonymous." This has been testified in case after case from those who submitted similar questions to headquarters.
Brother "C" : I used to write. Remember I told you…I had to make a decision. I had to make a call. What was I going to do? Was I going to be part of Christendom and just drift with the world the way it was going or be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses? I had some association with Jehovah’s Witnesses through my mother. But I sure didn’t want to do it. But you had to make some choices…someplace along the line to make some choices.
James: I could say unhesitatingly that there are hundreds of thousands of people like me... on the fringes of the Watchtower Society no longer associating in fear (of) asking questions because it comes down to this. (Judicial hearings)
Brother "M" : I guess what I was trying to say before…you brought up . I guess what I was trying to say before Jim and I know you recognize this so I know you will take it in the spirit in which it’s offered. Personally speaking, I’ll stay up all night and all day and three days after with someone who’s really looking for the answers to understand. But I think we all agree you’re kind of beyond all that now. Am I correct in that?
James: Well I could only say this, there were people who absolutely believed in the Trinity and wanted to debate about the trinity with witnesses...and a witness went to his door, showed the reason why he didn’t believe in the trinity and that (Trinitarian) belief (of the householder) became disbelief...and if that works at the door on someone who is absolutely convinced (of the Trinity)... If the evidence is substantial enough anyone who believes... what they believe can be turned around... if there are answers.
Wouldn’t you agree with that?
(I was not personally arguing for or against the Trinity, but using it rather for the sake of argument in that Jehovah's Witnesses have proven very successful at debating the Trinity doctrine)
Brother "M" :I think that’s a general statement that is probably true in many situations. However what we’re saying here…and let me just try to keep the focus…the focus is that…you know we get…lets see how can I say it? I want to say it as delicately as possible.
James: You don’t have to. It’s all right. I can deal with it.
Brother "M" : I want to say it delicately and kindly. Uh…you’re no longer looking for understanding as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. You’re beyond that. Maybe it would have been nice if three years ago someone had stayed up all night and all day but that didn’t happen. Nor did you come to meetings, which you should have. Nor did you write the society, which you should have.
But nevertheless, today you’re beyond all that. You’ve come to a point in your life when you say look I don’t believe it I don’t want to be part of it. I don’t believe as they do, it’s as simple as that.
James: But why can’t I leave quietly? I don’t get that.
The accusation has been made that Jehovah’s Witnesses are a cult. The reasons why they say Jehovah’s Witnesses are a cult…not theologically but sociologically, (is) because members can’t leave with dignity.
I’ve read many books on abusive churches and cults and it is for this very reason… that someone who in their heart...out of a good conscience (who) can no longer hold certain tenets of an organization…(starting another thought) that instead of leaving as a gentleman where someone says, you know what? He’s a man of God. He differs from how we feel, but he’s a good man. Like many of you people left your religions.
(Speaking to Brother "C" ) I’m sure you left the Catholic Church at one point. Does your family let you eat a meal with them... the Catholic relatives?
Brother "C" : (Nodding yes)
James: Well they’re much more tolerant than Jehovah’s Witnesses!
Why? Why can’t witnesses dignify people? I love God. You love God too. We all love God. We’re all trying to get knowledge of God.
Dignify people! Dignify them! "To label…don’t say a salutation, don’t share a meal." I don’t deserve that. I’m a man of God, I don’t deserve that!
Brother "C" : If you don’t believe like us and you don’t follow or work with our teachings…
James: I’m not in your organization.
Brother "C" : Why do you want to be viewed by them?
James: I have family, weddings, all sorts of things. It’s intricately interwoven our lives with other lives. I'm 31 years around these people. I mean it’s a pretty obvious reason why I feel that way.
OBSERVATION: Brother "C" is asking why I should even care about such individuals acknowledging me. The fact is that ex-witnesses who leave because of theological differences are shunned by their life-long friends and are labeled as "apostates."
I feel it’s like Jim Jones said to people (His Followers) when they were in Guyana, "oh you can leave if you want, but we keep your kids." It’s the same thing! It’s the same thing.
It happens to witnesses who have children whose grandparents say we don’t want to associate anymore… (And the children say) they’re not to see our grandchildren any more. And that’s why it’s called a "cult," because that is not acceptable behavior, even in a democratic society, never mind "theocratic." That’s not democratic.
OBSERVATION: I made the parallel to Jim Jones for the following reason. Brother "M" said the following at the start of the evening:
"You know we’re…as an appeal committee it’s our charge to be as fair and to offer you as much dignity as we can." [Quote]
"If you feel that there’s ways that you just differ from us and those are just inconvertible that that’s the way you feel, well we respect that about you…you know, that’s how you feel" [Quote]
Brother "M" in reality, however, did not have the decency to answer my questions or acknowledge many of my statements. He also joked cavalierly when I expressed dismay in not having received "shepherding calls."
Not only did "Brother "C" call me an apostate and anti-Christ to my face, but the entire body of Elders unanimously made a decision that led to a public announcement that would sully my good name, causing my friends to eternally renounce me as "spiritually dead." This is hardly "offering someone dignity," or "respecting how one feels." Like Jim Jones, who informed his followers that they were "free to leave" only at pain of losing their children, these men in like manner were couching their actions in gentlemanly expressions in order to trivialize the reality of the injustice they committed and resulting pain they caused in my life and that of my family.
Brother "M1" : It’s theocratic!
James: It’s not theocratic my friend.
Brother "C" : You have to understand that we’re different. We do recognize that we’re different. There’s no doubt. You knew that when you joined that we do hold a strong stance in Jehovah’s organization. That’s what we call it. I know you don’t believe that’s what it is.
James: Well let me ask you a question. When you changed from being a Catholic should your former family members have viewed you as an "apostate" and never shared a meal with you again?
Would that have been "theocratic?"
Brother "C" : Had they been following the standard that they were to suppose to…
James: No I’m asking you, would that have been "theocratic?" Would it have been theocratic for them never to speak to you?
IMPORTANT: Note in what follows how all the elders involved in this discussion are unanimous in the belief that if non Jehovah's witnesses really believed the Bible, they would shun their Jehovah's Witness family members in obedience to scripture. Their unanimity proves that it is not a mere "coincidence" that Jehovah's Witnesses hold to such convoluted ideologies, but that the concepts are funneled down from the leadership of the organization.
Brother "M" : Had they followed the Bible, yes.
Brother "C" : In their view, sure. In fact it’s not that I haven’t been called an apostate from Catholicism it’s just that they don’t care.
James: (Speaking to Brother "D") I mean in December when I go to your family’s house…your aunt Rose and all that…and we sit there and they have all their Christmas stuff. You say a prayer. They dignify you. You say Jehovah’s name. You say amen. Should you be considered "apostate" from those beautiful people?
Brother "D" : They hold nothing to the Catholic Church in that they live immoral lives from the viewpoint of the Catholics. If they strictly held to the Catholic view, they would. (This brother's non-witness family are, in fact, not immoral from anyone's viewpoint)
James: (Horrified with their implications) They wouldn’t eat a meal with you?
Brother "M" : Well they shouldn’t, if they were reading 2 John.
Brother "D" : If they felt they had the true faith they certainly wouldn’t. But they don’t feel they have the true faith.
James: (Utterly stupefied) So you don’t think that applies to anti-Christs? I mean there are twenty-eight thousand denominations of Protestantism. All recognize that they believe in the essentials, that the Bible is inspired, Jesus died for mankind’s sins and... there’s some camaraderie of just showing dignity to a human being.
(At the breaking point) I mean I literally feel…and it’s only in talking to people who are not witnesses that I realize that I’m not crazy. How do you view that as a person unfit...?
I had spiritual conversations when I was in Japan. I had spiritual conversations when I was with Stephanie and my friends in California. Tons of spiritual conversations about being good, loving God, being loyal to your mates, doing what’s right, showing self-control…unfit to eat a meal? Amazing...amazing world you live in!
Brother "C" : I told you we hold a strong standard…
James: No you hold a biased standard!
Brother "C" : Well it was not unknown to you when you joined.
James: Well it’s a club, it’s a club. That’s silly, "you joined"…even the words you use "you joined."
Brother "C" : Well that’s what you did. You became one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. You didn’t Join the Catholic Church.
James: No you know what it is? Instead of being baptized in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, it’s the "spirit-directed organization"…because we can even change the words of Christ if we want, can’t we? Sure why not!
Brother "C" : No we don’t do that.
James: Why is that what he (Christ) said the "spirit-directed organization?"
Brother "C" : That’s the term we use, sure. Every term we use is in the Bible.
James: Jesus said "the spirit-directed organization?"
Brother "C" : They baptize in the Father Son and the Holy Spirit…
James: No...and the "spirit-directed organization!"
Brother "C" : When we baptize do we say those things?
James: Yes.
Brother "C" : No we don’t. (All the other elders looked on in horror. No one corrected him)
James: Brother "C" per favore! (Please! Trying to appeal to our shared ethnicity)
Brother "C" : We ask you the questions…
James: And that do you recognize that this…
Brother "C" : But when you were baptized in the water it was not…
James: That’s not true. That’s the third baptismal question. You speak from ignorance.
Brother "C" : We ask you that question: Do you recognize that you joined with us, that you’re a part of our organization?
James: So you changed the words of Christ!
Brother "C" : Well we could eliminate that (The words "the spirit-directed organization") if we wanted to, but we don’t.
James: Why?
Brother "C" : Because it makes us an organization.
OBSERVATION: This is perhaps the most telling statement of the evening in that it encapsulates the mentality of Witnesses vis a vis the Bible and the Watchtower organization.
If you remember, it was Brother Garrett who when ordering me to "square with headquarters" reminded me that I had "answered in the affirmative to the third baptismal question." [Quote] Brother "M" also stated that it is as "simple" as "when the Brother asked the two baptismal questions you said yes." {Quote} And now Brother "C" after being hard-pressed admits that the Watchtower did in fact "alter" the baptismal formula from The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to The Father, Son, and spirit-directed organization. He justifies this by openly admitting that they did so for the express reason of establishing the Watchtower organization.
James: See how you’re above the Bible though! You’re above "false prophecy," "a different gospel." You’re above (the biblical application of) "the anti-Christ," you’re above the words of Jesus.
(Laughing) Amazing, amazing!
Brother "M" : (Speaking to the Elders Brothers "D,"M1" and "G") Is there anything that you Brothers wanted to mention?
Brother "D" : It’s very consistent with what we heard.
James: (Joking) It’s consistent right? The message is consistent?
Brother "D" : Brother "M" mentioned it and I mentioned it, you were very willing to meet with us which we appreciate. You didn’t say one thing to us, and another here…
James: I have nothing to be ashamed of.
Brother "D" : And like I said to you, these are your beliefs and you should hold to them.
James: I do. But I feel I should leave with dignity. I don’t feel I’m an anti-Christ. Brother "C" might feel I’m an anti-Christ, but I don’t believe I am.
Brother "D" : Well I also mentioned to that you should honor the beliefs of others as well.
James: You can believe in three classes of Christians and I would still eat a meal with you. Isn’t that gracious of me? (Laughing)
Brother "M" : We’re going to adjourn, we’ll go upstairs. Maybe there’s coffee upstairs.
All 6 Elders: (Boisterous laughter over the fifth joke about coffee!)
Brother "M" : (About to leave the room) You’re a very articulate man, it must be from all that singing.
James: Yes...all of my articulation has led me right out the door!
THE VERDICT
If you recall, my judicial committee meeting ended with the confession that when it comes to false prophecy, the Watchtower is above the very principles of God as found in the Bible . My appeal committee meeting now ends with an overt admission that the Watchtower has altered the express words of Christ in reference to baptism in order to establish a religious organization. If you have a high view of scripture, what more do you need to hear?
As in all Jehovah's Witness closed-door trials, I was not permitted any witnesses. The six elders not only functioned against me as prosecuting lawyers for both my accuser and the Watchtower Society, but acted as judge and jury as well. Even the Bible's explicit principles were not enforced in that my accuser never approached me in the spirit of Matthew 18, nor was he obliged to. Far from meeting the biblical standard of justice, such a judicial arrangement would never be permitted in any enlightened country.
When one considers the medieval tactics and blatant disregard for holy scripture, it is little wonder that the "appeal committee" decided to sustain the verdict of disfellowshipment.
SUBTERFUGE
I appealed by writing a letter to the society. I was informed some three and a half months later that an announcement of "disassociation" would be made. Not desiring to give the false impression that I had proactively asked to be disassociated, I once again contacted the service department. The service department kept me on hold for sometime until they found someone who was familiar with my case. I was informed by this department head that one could not be disassociated unless one specifically requested to be. As you have seen, I did anything but make such a request. I was then told to have the presiding overseer call Bethel promptly that day.
Two weeks later, unbeknownst to me, an announcement was made at the Branford Kingdom Hall that I had "disassociated myself." Confused, I phoned the presiding overseer to find out why he never communicated to me the fact that such an announcement was to be made.
It turned out that, as ordered, the elder had indeed called the service department that day only to discover that they (the service department) claimed that I had never called and that they had never spoken with me. Rather then clear up a possible miscommunication, the service department issued the directive that the elder should proceed as planned with the "disassociation" announcement.
Having read the testimony of Raymond Franz and countless others who have had unspeakable injustices committed against them by the duplicitous headquarters' staff, I had the presence of mind to record my phone conversations with them as proof of their dishonesty.
AFTERMATH
Since that announcement I have lost all my friends and associates. Those who I considered intimate acquaintances do not acknowledge my presence when they see me in public. Those who do continue to speak to me must do so clandestinely less they suffer the same punishment.
Even the once impregnable bond of my family has been severed causing great strife, division and heartache. Reality has been replaced by pernicious rumor and suspicion. Due to the Watchtower's censorship on all literature critical of the sect, any attempt to communicate via letters has proven fruitless.
The shunning has accomplished its intended goal; to put a lid on any discussion of incriminating evidence against the Watchtower - to place an hermetic seal on the Jehovah's Witness community.
Witnesses are taught to unquestioningly take the word of elders regarding judicial hearings. Therefore, the fact that I have in my possession a tape-recording of both committee meetings and Bethel phone conversations is of little import. That, however, should not come as a surprise to you if you have taken the time to read these two transcripts. For as you have seen, evidence many times is not enough.
If I could do it all over again, I would not change anything. Leaving the organization and losing my good name has resulted in my drawing closer to God and His precious Son. It has given me the privilege to share in the suffering of the Christ. It is with boldness that I echo the words of the beloved apostle Paul:
What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ--the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith. I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead. Philippians 3: 8-11
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